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Josh-D. S. Davis

Xaminmo / Omnimax / Max Omni / Mad Scientist / Midnight Shadow / Radiation Master

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Cognitive therapy = resolution at 16 weeks with half the relapse rate of antidepressants
Molecule M
joshdavis
Cognitive Therapy vs Psychotherapy
In a study of 240 patients, researchers found that patients [...] who got four months of cognitive therapy had about the same relapse rate a year later as people who took Paxil (paroxetine) the whole time. If people quit taking Paxil after four months, their relapse rate was twice that of therapy patients'.
[...]
In the study, patients on medication got better quicker. At eight weeks, the response rate was 50 percent for Paxil , 43 percent for cognitive therapy, and 25 percent for placebo. But by 16 weeks, 58 percent of patients in both treatment groups were feeling better.

The article goes on to explain differences in cogtherapy vs psychotherapy, limitations in the field, etc.
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(Deleted comment)
Zoloft is a wonderful drug. I had to get on it during my second pregnancy, because it seems like from the instant of conception my brain chemicals were whacked. I just got off of it about a month ago. Prozac did nothing but make me more nauseous. I think different types of therapy are like different types of diets. Everyone's got their own special type that works for them. No one type works for everyone. Chronic pain is worse than most people think. I do know of a friend's mom that was driven to blow out her brains because she had such bad migraines and nothing worked. Glad you didn't succumb though. Where there's life, there's hope. :)

this is a MUCH better reply than mine.

I think the number of people with unretrainable neurological defect is alot lower than Pfizer, et. al, want the world to believe. We just have a fucked up society which is not conducive to human happiness.

I think the biggest problem with CogTherapy is more that it requires a skilled and intelligent practitioner. Try finding that combination in ANY field. It's tough.

I think alot of the problem for "smart people" is that they've become smart in a technical fashion, which happens to avoid alot of emotional connections within the work. The logical mind tries to make sense of things, but doesn't know how, because really, they don't make sense.

I think this is where religion comes in for the masses... accept and believe and you don't have to try to understand anymore. That's why religion can be so difficult for intelligent people, because that's almost the most offensive thing in the world, to suggest not trying to find answers.

AD meds + tolerance = bleh. Short term I can justify just about anything, but long-term/stable maintenance is more difficult for me to come to terms with.

This is where I talk about the injustice of the politicians taking some of the most intense, one-shot psychotherapy tools away from the medical community simply because they were unable to control them... (because it's so controlled now). (Insert implication that it's there to make people criminals so that anyone can be removed easily from a position of conflict because everyone is a criminal of some sort in our legal system.)

The further discussion in the article was slightly interesting, but it was light fare.

Minds are just really wierd things. It's a fun project to explore, but I don't think there will ever really be complete resolution of the picture of the mind.

(Deleted comment)
Yah, tangent man visited, but basically, the creation of the DEA was done during the "LSD Revolution" because people on LSD were speaking out and protesting against the government. So, remove drugs, and the population becomes docile.

The problem is that they have scheduled LSD and MDMA as having no potential medical benefits, not to be used for psychotherapy.

We're not supposed to be an even-level all the time. We're supposed to have ups and downs, in everything. It's a pattern, a cycle.

So sometimes, having an intense psychotheraputic event rather than a long-term affect adjustment has helpd alot of people come to terms with some of the screwed up aspects of life.

MDMA has been shown to help break loops by reducing the aversion and defensive aspects of psychotherapy intensely for short duration.

LSD has been shown to help explore areas of the mind usually locked or blocked by emotions or lack of focus. This usually requires a guide because it can amplify emotions of any type, including self punishing thoughts.

Luckily, MDMA has been given a green light for a couple of small studies. I think it's too valuable of a tool to be restricted simply for political reasons.

(aka, some rich kids acquired substances, took them, killed themselves by heat exhaustion, impure substances, and one person took 16 times the average recreational dose. Rich parents and lobbyists used this for schedule 1 when it should have been schedule 3).


that was pretty much my tangent.

I say it all the time----MDMA should be used therapeutically, especially in cases of trauma. I tried therapy, Effexor, books, cognitive therapy, hypnosis, yoga, and then some, and only made progress when I went with more unconventional methods in the comfort of my own home. If used with regular therapy, MDMA could prove to be extremely helpful for others, I am sure. I wish we could overcome the stigma and explore more controlled possibilities.

But, drugs are bad, umkay?

Oh, wait, if there's a patent, royalties, and tax, then drugs are ok. In fact, everyone should be on daily, bid, or tid maintenance doses of some drug, but only drugs that make us more docile or productive -- preferrably stimulants or seratonin modulators.

We don't want anything that help people actually figure anything out. We'll call it "Chemical Imbalance" and then lump anyone with any sort of emotional problems into the same category. Gotta make sure they're dependant on the system.

/me rants on satirically out of frustration and anger.

I agree with the first reply that there are plenty of cases in which cognitive therapy is just not indicated - vs. anti-depressants. There are affective disorders that are mostly, if not completely chemical in nature (mine in the fairly recent past, for example). Cognitive therapy would have little effect for these patients.

But with that said, I love cognitive and cognitive-behavioral therapies as a form of treatment, and will always stand behind their effectiveness - again for those whom retraining their self-talk, etc. is what is indicated. I was just suggesting it to Sam yesterday, in fact. Sometimes we get caught in these self-perpetuating, circular patterns of detrimental thought (and at times, behaviors) that just need to be retrained... reset almost. We just need an outside influence to come in and hit the *warm boot* button. Heheh. MUCH more useful than psychobabble psychotherapy, IMHO anyway.

I'm curious as to what prompted you to both read this article and post about it in your LJ.

I don't recall exactly. There was some Asperger's talk recently, prompted by crackmonkey's post, prompted by lottasmiles new job.

It might also have come from the mindhacks or NIH rss feeds.

I think we ALL need a whole lot of resetting. We're wonky creatures, which ties into, going to the zoo was depressing, as usual.

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